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Love Wins and Infant Salvation – Chapter Two

As a parent who has lost a child I am very interested in how Love Wins relates to my questions about Infant Salvation and the fate of my son, Jude.

Therefore, this review of Rob Bell’s book Love Wins is rather specific and is limited to the topic of Infant Salvation.

A list of other more detailed reviews can be found at the bottom of m review of Love Wins and Infant Salvation – Preface.

Love Wins and Infant Salvation – Preface

Love Wins and Infant Salvation – Chapter 1 – What About the Flat Tire?

 

In chapter two Rob Bell talks about Hope, Heaven and Help, as well as flat tires.

What about hope?

While the Love Wins Preface does not speak directly to Infant Salvation, chapter one, What About the Flat Tire?, does.

For a book about heaven, hell, and the fate of every person who ever lived the context of infant salvation is rather dark and lacks comfort or hope.

Chapter two starts with the now infamous line of questioning about Gandhi’s eternal fate. These question, which were asked in the book’s trailer, helped ignite the firestorm that spread across the blogosphere.

Really?

Gandhi’s in hell?

He is?

We have confirmation of this?

Somebody knows this?

Without a doubt?

And that somebody decided to take on the responsibility of letting the rest of us know? (pages 1-2)

Along with these questions he goes on to ask dozens more.

Some silly. Some serious. All designed to generate an emotional response.

Like a caged animal, these questions quickly turn on us and attack the very heart of the Christian message; hope.

He writes:

Several years ago I heard a woman tell about the funeral of her daughter’s friend, a high-school student who was killed in a car accident. Her daughter was asked by a Christian if the young man who had died was a Christian. She said that he told people he was an atheist. This person then said to her, “So there’s no hope then.”

No hope?

Is that the Christian message?

“No hope?”

Is that what Jesus offers the world?

Is this the sacred calling of Christians – to announce that there’s no hope? (pages 3-4)

Hope is a funny thing.

I have written about it often (here, here, here, here, here, and here)  and I understand Rob Bell’s frustration.

While my frustration comes from empty or vague comments about hope, Rob Bell turns the tables like a New Jersey Housewife and implies that the traditional, historical, Orthodox Christian message is actually a message of no hope!

I think he knows better, but more on that in a moment.

What about heaven?

Immediately after assassinating hope he then goes all Emo on us and takes Infant Salvation to its (morbidly) logical conclusion.

He writes:

The death of this high-school student raises questions about what’s called the “age of accountability.” Some Christians believe that up to a certain age children aren’t held accountable for what they believe or who they believe in, so if they die during those years, they go to be with God. But then when they reach a certain age, they become accountable for their beliefs, and if they die, they go to be with God only if they have said or done or believed the “right” things. Among those who believe this, this age of accountability is generally considered to be sometime around age twelve.

This belief raises a number of issues, one of them being the risk each new life faces. If every new baby being born could grow up to not believe the right things and go to hell forever, then prematurely terminating a child’s life anytime from conception to twelve years of age would actually be the loving thing to do, guaranteeing that the child ends up in heaven, and not hell, forever.  Why run the risk? (pages 3-4)

I, too, have raised this very question.

I usually do it when a conversation turns into a confrontation.

When a conversation starts to get out of hand I bring up the same “logical” conclusion.

I know it is mean, but I don’t always bring it up and it is usually as a last resort to get someone to shut up or at least step back and acknowledge that the topic is not an easy one.

Why is it not an easy topic to discuss?

Because Infant Salvation is not directly discussed in the Bible.

It is indirectly discussed – and hinted at – but there is no one “chapter and verse” where it is defended or defined.

When people start acting like it is I usually bring up the same points that Rob Bell does in chapter one, about guaranteeing a child’s salvation.

Also, where Infant Salvation is at least indirectly addressed in the Bible, Age of Accountability is not. It is simply a logical assumption based on the indirect discussion.

And this is where Rob Bell’s writing style starts to get him in trouble.

Rob Bell likes to start with very general and high level comments, but end with specific conclusions and applications.

General (yet sometimes valid) questions will end with a specific (and usually misleading) response.

For example, “generally considered to be sometime around age twelve” (emphasis mine) is a general comment. He even uses the word “generally.” He concludes, however, with a very specific application stated as being absolution true; “Prematurely terminating a child’s life anytime from conception to twelve years of age would actually be the loving thing to do.”

With that he leaves the idea of Infant Salvation and begins to create a straw man of sorts in Age of Accountability.

He again asks questions but provides no answers.

This is disingenuous as the questions certainly have implied answers that are very negative – or contrary – to traditional orthodoxy.

He may not give answers, but the questions are worded in a way as to show the answer he wants to give, but does not.

But it’s ok that the idea of Infant Salvation and the Age of Accountability don’t make sense; neither does Jesus when He talks about salvation.

Rob Bell goes on to imply that Jesus can’t even explain how someone “gets saved.”

He quotes many verses that seem to contradict each other about how someone “gets saved.” He goes so far as to imply that Jesus doesn’t even know how to save anyone.

His concluding straw man question is “which Jesus do we believe in?” Which Jesus should we follow?

For example, Rob Bell quotes Renee Altson’s Stumbling Toward Faith:

I grew up in an abusive household. Much of my abuse was spiritual – and when I say spiritual, I don’t mean new age, esoteric, random mumblings from half-Wiccan, hippie parents… I mean that my father raped me while reciting the Lord’s Prayer. I mean that my father molested me while singing Christian hymns.

That Jesus? (page 7)

The question, as presented in the context of chapter one, is should we follow “that Jesus?”

The problem is that this quote is not even about Jesus.

It is about a horrible man.

A real !@#%@$$ of a man.

It is horrible. It is heinous. It is disgusting.

But it is not about Jesus.

The emotions are real and the implied answer is a resounding “NO! WE WILL NOT FOLLOW THAT JESUS!”

But it was her father who was a monster, not Jesus.

It was the father who committed the crime, not Jesus.

It was the father who sinned, not Jesus.

Rob Bell ends the chapter by implying we don’t know to get saved, that we don’t know what to believe, and that our current understanding of salvation and faith is obviously wrong.

It is ironic that he ends the chapter by saying, “But this isn’t just a book of questions. It’s a book of responses to these questions.” (page 19)

So far he has asked a lot of questions, but has provided almost no answers.

Maybe he will in chapter two, Here is the New There, the chapter about heaven.

What about help?

So what about the flat tire?

While dissecting our (mis)understanding of salvation he also puts evangelism on trial.

He writes:

If our salvation, our future, our destiny is dependent on others bringing the message to us, teaching us, showing us – what happens if they don’t do their part?

What if the missionary get a flat tire? (page 9)

Earlier I stated that I think he knows better. Here’s why.

It is one thing to ask questions (even misleading questions) about our understanding of salvation; it is another thing all together to question the purpose of the church and the role of the Holy Spirit in salvation.

As a pastor Rob Bell knows the work and purpose of the Church.

He knows our “great commission” (Matthew 28:16-20).

He even discusses it in the next chapter about heaven.

He also knows that the Holy Spirit – and not just missionaries with flat tires – has a role in our salvation (John 16:8-11, 2 Corinthians 1:21-22, Ephesians 1:13, Ephesians 4:30).

To imply that God has stepped away from His creation and left it all up to us is extremely arrogant. Even more arrogant than the person who thinks Gandhi, a man who publicly rejected Jesus, will be separated from God forever.

In conclusion.

I find it funny that so many people will tell you that there is nothing you can do to get saved and then say all you have to do is believe.

Or when people say there is nothing you can do to be saved so say this simple prayer.

It’s funny. Not slap you knee funny, but ha ha funny.

But in the ends it is simply our way of trying to verbalize – explain – something spiritual, mystical, and supernatural.

It’s as if Rob Bell does not understand that there are different types of speech.

We say that we saw a beautiful sun set, even though the sun did not set.

The earth turned.

The sun did not set. But it looks like it did so we call it a sun set.

Also, belief, whether religious or not, leads to action.

If I believe I should help someone then I will help them. If I believe that they need to learn a lesson and do something on their own, then I won’t help them. In this case my inaction becomes my action.

For Rob Bell to play loosey goosey with his words as he tries to explain God’s words is irresponsible. I know he wants to defend his beliefs (oh yea, and even his actions are based on his beliefs) so I think he should defend them.

If you want me to agree to flush 2000 years of tradition and Orthodoxy down the toilet, at least show me why I should.

So far he has not.

As a parent who has lost a child and has (sometimes) struggled with Infant Salvation I have yet to find hope, or even comfort, in Love Wins.

Maybe I will find it in chapter three, Here is the New There, the chapter about heaven.

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Until next time.

Love Wins and Infant Salvation – Preface

Love Wins and Infant Salvation

I like Rob Bell. I really do.

I bought, read and enjoyed Velvet Elvis.

I bought, read and mostly enjoyed Sex God.

I got Drops Like Stars from the library, read most of it, but got tired if it quickly.

I skipped Jesus Wants to Save Christians. The name bugged me and I was not willing to stop reading what ever it was I was already reading.

I recently got Love Wins from the library and am reading it now.

There is no doubt the controversy is justified. There is also no doubt that the book is designed to create controversy and to get people talking.

And boy are people talking.

People far smarter than me (and some of them a bit ruder than me) have reviewed Love Wins. Some have been helpful, some have not. There are links at the bottom of this post if you are interested reading what others have said about Love Wins.

My review, however, will be rather specific. My review will be limited to Love Wins and Infant Salvation.

I plan to post one review per chapter, starting with the preface.

 

Love Wins and Infant Salvation, Preface

While the Preface to Love Wins starts with a bang in the context of hell (Who knew what you were taught was all wrong and way too mean?) and salvation (Who knew that none of us really knows how to be “saved” or even what “saved” really means?), there is no specific mention or illusion to Infant Salvation.

I would suggest, however, that the Preface does address the emotions and frustration I have felt while wrestling with a biblical understanding of Infant Salvation.

Rob Bell writes:

I’ve written this book because the kind of faith Jesus invites us into doesn’t skirt the big questions about topics like God and Jesus and salvation and judgment and heaven and hell, but takes us deep into the heart of them. (page ix)

Some communities don’t permit open, honest inquiry about the things that matter most. Lots of people have voiced a concern, expressed a doubt, or raised a question, only to be told by their family, church, friends, or tribe: We don’t discuss those things here. (page ix)

My hope is that this frees you. There is no question that Jesus cannot handle, no discussion too volatile, no issue too dangerous. (page x)

I wholeheartedly agree.

God is not afraid of your emotions.

He is not afraid of your questions.

He can even handle your anger and your doubt.

As I have written before (here and here) I have faced this very attitude; the attitude that Infant Salvation is not to be questioned, doubted or talked about.

I have tried to talk about my concerns, my doubts, my frustration and most of the times they are met with cliché responses or disapproval. Most of the time people (especially pastors) simply say, “Of course your son is in heaven!”

If only the answers to my questions were that simple.

As the controversy surrounding Love Wins shows, the idea that someone can “go to heaven” without knowing God is a hard pill to swallow.

What is Rob Bell saying that I am not saying?

I do believe in Infant Salvation. I believe my son is with God even now, even though he never believed.

Maybe I should go easy on Rob Bell and Love Wins.

It is my desire that this can be a place where you can grieve, question, vent, and grow. Instead of running from Him, run to Him – draw near to Him. He can take it.

Love Wins and Infant Salvation

While I do agree with what Rob Bells says about asking questions and addressing doubts, I do not agree with the way he argues.

For example, in trying to show that his view is not really new (or wrong) he writes:

And then, last of all, please understand that nothing in this book hasn’t been taught, suggested, or celebrated by many before me. I haven’t come up with a radical new teaching that’s any kid of departure from what’s been said an untold number of times. That’s the beauty of the historic, orthodox Christian faith. It’s a deep, wide, diverse stream that’s been flowing for thousands of years, carrying a staggering variety of voices, perspectives, and experiences. (pages x-xi)

First, slavery and mass genocide (think Holocaust, Rwanda, etc.) have been taught, suggested and even celebrated. That doesn’t make them right or good.

The converse to his main point has also been taught, suggested and celebrated.

Both cannot be right.

Anyway, this starting argument style is sloppy logic at best, and at worst misleading.

Second, while it has been discussed in “orthodox” Christianity, he leaves out that it has also been rejected again, and again, and again as being contrary to what the Bible teaches.

 

A dark understanding of Infant Salvation is brought up in Chapter 1, What About the Flat Tire?, and will be the topic of our next post.

Please subscribe to be notified when the next post is available.

 

Until next time, here are a few other reviews, comments, complaints about Love Wins:

http://blog.beliefnet.com/omeoflittlefaith/2011/02/thoughts-rob-bell.html

http://www.relevantmagazine.com/culture/books/reviews/25070-love-wins-by-rob-bell

http://thegospelcoalition.org/blogs/kevindeyoung/2011/03/14/rob-bell-love-wins-review/

http://thegospelcoalition.org/blogs/justintaylor/2011/02/26/rob-bell-universalist/

http://www.challies.com/book-reviews/love-wins-a-review-of-rob-bells-new-book

http://www.albertmohler.com/2011/03/16/we-have-seen-all-this-before-rob-bell-and-the-reemergence-of-liberal-theology/

http://www.edstetzer.com/2011/03/rob-bell-love-wins-review-ish.html

http://www.christianitytoday.com/ct/2011/april/lovewins.html

http://www.redletterchristians.org/love-wins-rob-bell-and-the-new-calvinists/

http://www.patheos.com/community/bibleandculture/2011/03/02/rob-bells-new-book-love-wins/

Infant Salvation Book Search (Google Labs)

Google Labs Book Search - Infant Salvation

I plan to post a few more comments on Love Wins and Infant Salvation shortly. (Subscribe to be notified when there are new posts.)

Until then here is a graph of the usage of Infant Salvation in literature from 1800 – 2010 (courtesy of Google Labs).

Observations

There is a consistently growing body of work between 1800 and 1880.

While there is a slight decline from 1880 to 1900, there is a sudden decline around 1900, especially around the time of the Industrial Revolution.

There are two interesting spikes post Industrial Revolution. One during the 1960s and one around Y2K.

Questions

Why the sudden drop in the 1900?

And why the (slight) increase of interest in the 1960s and 2000?

Thoughts?

I Miss My Son

 

February 11, 1999 – April 12, 2001

JUDE LEONARD SMITH came into this world on February 11, 1999 while listening to Vivaldi’s Four Seasons.

His life was a symphony of laughter and joy every day thereafter and he was the composer of some of our finest memories.

He was listening again to Vivaldi as he went to be with our Lord at 2:20 pm Thursday, April 12, 2001.

He will be sorely missed by all who had the privilege to know him, but most especially by his best friends, his family:

parents Simon and Ericka (both of whom he affectionately called “Mommy”),

older brother Job (“DOE!”),

only sister Abigail (“Thithy”),

and younger brother Jesse (“Thethie”).

We miss you, Judey-patooty! And we love you, precious boy!

Love Wins and Infant Salvation

So, Rob Bell has a new book coming out – Love Wins.

https://www.robbell.Com/lovewins/

http://www.vimeo.Com/20272585

Rob’s work tends to be polarizing. If you love him you really love him. If you don’t, then you probably hate him.

Very black and white with little, if any, shades of gray.

Love Wins looks to be no exception. How could it with a sub-title like this?

“A Book About Heaven, Hell, and the Fate of Every Person Who Ever Lived.”

The (Christian?) Blogosphere has exploded in a he-said, no-he-didn’t-say, maybe-he-said, what-will-he-say mess.

And the book isn’t even out yet. Continue Reading…

Happy Birthday Jude

Saint Depraved Poetry – Thorn

Although it may be cliché, I would suggest that my poetry got “better” as I wrote more honest poetry. After Jude died my poetry is a bit less concealing and certainly more revealing.
Thorn is my wrestling with how my sin may or may not be intertwined with the events surrounding his death.


thorn
is this the thorn in my flesh
is this the thorn in my side
is this the thorn that will hold me back
is this the thorn in my pride
is this the thorn in my side
is this the thorn in my flesh
is this the thorn that will break my back
is this the thorn wound still fresh
is this the thorn in my skin
is this the thorn in my hide
is this the thorn that will hold me down
is this the thorn in my stride
is this the thorn in my hide
is this the thorn in my skin
is this the thorn that will break me down
is this the thorn of my sin


FYI #1 – the lack of punctuation was not meant to be lazy. It was intended to add to the numbness of the feelings.

FYI #2 – I don’t know why/when it happened, but I like duality of thoughts and rhyme in structuring the poem around two complete ideas (flesh/side, then side/flesh, skin/hide, then hide/skin)

Happy Holidays and Jude’s Picture

The proverbial fan that is my life is pretty messy at the moment.

So much so that I have yet to reply to my best guy friend from High School who recently asked, “How’s it going.” I just don’t want to be the guy that always has bad stuff to say.

Although most of what is going on affects me, it is not my story to tell. Meaning, I will not be talking about it here any time soon.

I did want to make two quick comments before the holidays.

First, I DO believe in infant salvation.

This is simply me trying to work out a “biblical” view of how to defend it. Just because I think it is VERY hard to defend does not mean I don’t believe it or that it is not work defending.

God is good, OF COURSE it’s true, etc., is not enough for me.

That is why I am working this out publicly. If it’s not enough for me then maybe it is not enough for someone else.

Secondly, if that someone else is you please know that we will be back in the New Year.

Until then I am going to share a bit of my (mostly old but some new) poetry.

Happy (belated) Hanukah.

Merry Christmas.

Happy New Year.

Happy Holidays.

Testing Hope/Testing Infant Salvation – Hope Part III

I meet with a few other dads bright and early Monday morning. We call it the mob (men of boys).

It is not really bright. That is how early it is.

I know it’s important to me as I am not by nature a morning person. As Ericka is quick to point out, I have even slept for three straight days.

Anyway, after Monday’s mob meeting I was talking to one of the dads and had an epiphany on why I don’t run towards hope.

It was when I was telling this story to William.

Jude was admitted to the hospital on a Thursday and had brain surgery on Monday. The first time I left he hospital after he was admitted was after his surgery Monday to get some food or coffee or something with Ericka.
Sometime after I returned to the hospital one of Jude’s many machines started beeping. I am not a beeping aficionado but it sounded like a bad beep so I ran to get the nurse.
And it was a bad beep.
The beep was telling us that the pressure in Jude’s brain – due to his brain swelling – was starting to be very bad.
The doctors encouraged us to enter act with him to try to calm him.

We sang, we prayed, we talked to him.

We prayed some more, we played Vivaldi (his favorite composer), we sang some more.
Slowly the pressure started to go down.
Once it appeared that Jude was ok I went to sleep. I told the nurse to wake me if something went wrong or if the pressure started to rise again.
However many hours later I woke up on my own.
I woke up hopeful.
No one woke me up, indicating that everything, including the brain pressure issue, was ok.
I quickly found out that he was not ok and that the pressure in his brain was dangerously high.
The readings went down – indicating that the pressure was improving – because one of the tubes got a clog. Once the clog was cleared (shortly after I went to sleep) the pressure shot right back up.
This was the beginning of the end.
The swelling was so severe that the blood was slowly pushed out of his brain.
Sometime later we would learn from the doctors that he was brain dead.
My hope so bright that Tuesday morning soon set with the evening sun.
Since then I don’t tend to run towards hope.
I tend to move very slowing – very deliberately – towards hope.
I also tend to test hope harshly.
That is why I am doing this.
My HOPE is that because Jesus lives Jude lives also.
But simply saying that is not good enough.
That is why I am testing hope.

That is why I am testing infant salvation.

I assume I am not the only one who does not run towards hope.
So, how have you tested hope?

Give Hugs, Not Hope (Hope, Part II)

This short article on grief is a good summary of why I think hugs are sometimes better than hope.
But grieving is important also.
If you rush into offering hope (regardless of how truthful the hope actually is) you run the risk of interfering and/or impeding the grieving process.
In my opinion, hope is not meant to dismiss the grieving process. Instead, hope is meant to guide the grieving process.
So remember, sometimes it is best to give hugs, not hope.
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